Oklahoma Politicians Decide Some Videogames are "Harmful to Minors"

Oklahoma's State Senate unanimously passed a bill that would equate videogames like HALO and Grand Theft Auto 3 with hardcore pornography, making it a crime to sell those games to anyone under the age of eighteen:

HB3004 seeks to amend an existing Oklahoma statute, and redefine what is considered "harmful to minors." Authored by State Rep. Fred Morgan (R), the bill would add "inappropriate violence" to the statute. In the actual wording of the bill, "harmful to minors" means: "the material or performance lacks serious literary, scientific, medical, artistic, or political value for minors."

[. . .]

Virtually everyone can agree that there are games which are clearly inappropriate for children, but that's what ratings and parents are for. Why is it that Republican lawmakers are gung-ho for personal responsibility and government abstinence when it comes to healthcare, welfare, and minimum-wage laws, but they can't vote "aye" fast enough when it comes to intrusively legislating morality?

If this bill becomes law, it will be a crime to sell a "harmful" game to a anyone under 18. There are countless reasons that this is incredibly stupid, among them the fact that a 17 year-old can buy himself a ticket to a graphically violent film like Saw or Hostel, or a sexually-charged film like Showgirls. But that same 17 year-old couldn't legally purchase DOOM 3, and the person who sold it to him would be criminally liable. How does this make sense? The answer is, it doesn't. Bills like this have nothing to do with protecting the children or seriously addressing issues which need governmental attention. Bills like this are entirely about election-year pandering to the ultra-conservative minority who unfortunately make up the modern Republican Base.

You can read the rest at the SGGeekwire.

Comments

[Cherikooka]

Well, they have to do something to piss people off, otherwise they wouldn't be "playing" politics, and where is the fun in that?
-Cheri

[Laura]

I don't know...I'm no prude by any means, and HALO seems alright, but Grand Theft Auto makes me sick to my stomach. "Inappropriate violence" doesn't really begin to cover it. That thing is perverse.

[Wil]

That's my point entirely, Laura. You have every right to believe that it's perverse, just as I have a right to play it in the privacy of my own home.

I also have a responsibility as a parent to prevent my children from playing it, but I don't need the government making additional laws that criminalize the sale of the game to minors.

And this bill makes no distinction between HALO, GTA, and Hustler. That's a problem, in my opinion.

[Sweet Chuck]

I don't think this is a symptom of just a Republican mindset. I think the problem is that something needs to be done to keep violent and/or sexually explicit video games out of the hands of children, but the lawmakers don't really think hard enough about what good solutions would be. I really don't think that the law, as it's stated, would make a huge impact. The parents that care, and are proactive about the media that their children are exposed to are already keeping an eye on video games, the parents that don't care, are likely to buy the game for their children, or be completely unaware that their child's friend has the game. Secondly, getting porn when you aren't 18 isn't difficult, neither is getting cigarettes. Looking back I'm pretty sure I was able to consistantly get my hands on both of those products when I was in the 7th or 8th grade.

[Rebecca]

They have to demonize something in order to keep their "troops" riled up.

Frankly, I think I see where lawmakers are trying to make more and more things illegal, so that there are more and more prisoners - and fewer voters. Remember:

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me--
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

-- Martin Niemoeller

[AmandaB]

I think it is somewhat of a good idea; those who want to buy the games can, those who shouldn't be buying them can't.

But, it's mostly parents who buy the games, so that won't make as huge an impact as compared to stores making policies not to RENT games to minors (which some stores already have).

A bigger impact would be media education, because there are still so many parents who are clueless as to what is in some video games these days. ...and even moreso I bet to the fact that their little ones want to rent such games.

This has been in the political and public sphere for decades (and video games since the mid 1990's). It was there with the democrats, it is there with the republicans, and it's there in countries who have neither.

[TheWillow]

This is just going to encourage people to download games even more. Bad idea i think.

[Denise]

This gets my goat, being an avid gamer. Once being in the business of selling video games to people, I noticed some frustrating trends. People moan and cry about the content of a video game. Which is fine because everybody is entitled to their opinion.

There are a few things that are not taken into consideration however about gaming today.

The market for gaming has grown over the years and companies have realized at long last there are many adult gamers who seek a game with more mature content as well as the family friendly material. And many parents are uninformed or misinformed about video games by their children. So when their kid brings home a copy of GTA, they are outraged. They just bought the game without looking at the handy dandy rating on the package which isn't all too different from the ratings that are slapped on movies. Countless times when a child would just ask for a MA rated game at the counter, I would hand the game to the parent and informed them of the rating which made them inclined to read the package.

Granted I lost sales doing this but it kept angry parents from marching back into my store. Most parents were glad I took the time to explain it. The point is that I shouldn't have had to remind them when they could have picked up the display box to read about the contents. I'd rather have a strict, cautious parent ask me questions about the game rather then an ignorant, blase parent who will just pay for it and then rush back into my store the next day to lecture me about the "inappropriate" game I sold them.

I am momentarily reminded of a trip to see Underworld Evolution when that came out in theaters and the movie is indeed rated R. I took my 16 year old brother because he couldn't very well go it alone since they wouldn't sell him a ticket. To boot, he is a gamer geek to the core and far too mature for his own good. As we were settled down, a family came in with 2 children that were both under the age of 10 by looking at them. Needless to say, the movie is full of violence, gore, some explicit language, some nudity, and the WORST sex scene I have ever seen in my day. Yet they stuck it through anyways when I thought they would have walked out after the horrid sex scene.

Pfft. I would have walked out after that except for the fact Kate Beckinsale is one of the actresses I'd trade teams for.

[barbq1]

Wil,

I couldn't agree with you more! Frankly I couldn't give a rat's hind end about video games (except those that I played as a teen like Galaga etc.)
I am so SICK and TIRED of this country turning not only into a fascist state (which it is) but also into a damned NANNY state!!!
Why does the government need to constantly tell us what to do, how to think etc.? I thought the backbone of Republicanism is "less big government."
Whatever happened to "Parental" laws? You know the type I'm talking about...the kind where your parents would call your friend's parents and lay down their "laws." That meant to my mom at age apprpriateness: that no rated R movies, an adult present at all times outside the house, no drinking, smoking, doing drugs, checking what video games they might play at the arcade (we didn't have NInetendo yet kiddies) and what time she'll pick me up in the morning if it was a sleep over. My mother met all my friend's parents. That meant she talked with them...
At length. She didn't just drop me off at the corner and drive off.
I don't like those games but I'm not crazy about new music and some of the teen movies out either and you know what that means?
I'M GETTING OLDER!!
Geez, when did this friggin' country stop taking responsibilty for itself and its children.
People want to blame ANYTHING else for their children's bad manners, criminal attitudes and crimes, sexual promiscuity, drug use and general selfishness rather than taking a good, hard look at themselves.

[Keith Coogan]

I like posts with the words "pandering", "hardcore" and "pornography" in them.

So, the network television broadcast of "Gone with the Wind" has no violence, sends a good political message and can be aired during the family hour?

But a 17 year old can't purchase Takamari, because the simulated people in the game are so violently rolled up into a ball?

[Joker Cross]

Why not? They already want to ban Harry Potter, pull a scholarly work about the history of manga out of county libraries, make it illegal to own a vibrator, and in the state of Texas the words "conjure" and "imagine" aren't even allowed to be used in school textbooks lest they "conjure" up imagery of "witchcraft."

It's one thing at a time. It creeps up. The next thing you know the whole world is safe from sin, but it's also boring as hell.

[Kim the fangirl]

Holy geez. Heaven forbid the government allow us to parent our own children.

This issue actually came up this past weekend. My kids' dad offered to buy GTA3 for them this weekend (they're 10 & 13) and - this is so great - my sons told him no because I told them it was inappropriate for them. How cool is that?

What's sad about it is that it illustrates what the evil empire is trying to push. Some parent's don't have the sense God gave a goat and either ignore the ratings or in the worse situations, ignore what their children are doing. Still, the government doesn't have any business telling us what games we can play.

[Dave]

I am not an American, but I hold no love for the Republican Government. I am not a fan of the [religious] right. I believe in the right to privacy and parental responsibility.

However, I am also a police officer, and have had a first-hand view at some of society's ills. If you look at violence and aggression in today's [North American] culture, particularily amongst youth, it is hard to argue that things are different from what they were even 20 years ago.

Something HAS changed.

I'm a gamer myself, and quite frankly, I'm not playing Mario Bros. At the same time, I strongly disapprove of games like GTA and 25 To Life. I think they send a bad message.

If you'd like to read a very intelligent and academic approach to the subject, I recommend the work of Lt. Col. Dave Grossman. Here is a quick summary of one of his books.

I don't think that violence in movies, television and video games are the sole determining factor with respect to violence in society, BUT, youth are impressionable, and to say they have no impact is, I think, a bit irresponsible.

I guess in a nutshell, my opinion on the proposed law is that I sympathize with it's intent, although am aware of the inherent problems in such "criminalization".

But what's the solution? I trust Wil to make the right decisions....but you don't need a license to be a parent...as many would flunk the exam. Horribly.

So how do we protect the kids who have the misfortune of being born to bad parents?

[AmandaB]

Nicely said Dave. I'm actually working on a PhD on the psychological effects of playing violent video games so I can confidently state that they DO affect people (especially young children). But at the same time, of course there are lots of other things going on, and they aren't solely to blame for anyone's problems. Many people are just fine who play violent games--but I think we agree most M rated games aren't for kids.

I totally support getting to choose what is and isn't right for your family. But fact of the matter is not all kids are as good as Kim's. Many try to get these games without their parents knowing. If you want to get a game for your family, you totally can, but you as a parent should have to do it. Some video games are, in my opinion, much worse than Playboy (and the Playboy video game is hilariously stupid). Minors are not allowed to buy Playboy, but they can rent the games. So, there is some sense to the proposed law (which is law in a few places now).

...BUT, many of the popular M rated games are as popular as they are because of the negative publicity, so "banning" them can backfire and make matters worse (can we say "forbidden fruit"?). Not to mention the nightmare of enforcing such laws.

That's why my preferred choice of dealing with any violent media is parental and child education about media violence (ratings, its effects, strategies for dealing with it as a family, etc.), and voluntary store policy not to sell or rent violent media to minors, and to always tell parents about the media's ratings. Some stores already do this. Education gets at the heart of the problem, and voluntary policy helps parents when they aren't there. (There are many websites with such educational info.)

...but although you can lead a parent/child to education, you can't make them learn. *sigh*

/soapbox. (Sorry for such a long post!)

[nathan]

As someone who others would label as a conservative (although I don't even know what that means), I agree with you Wil. I hate both parties, they're both greedy, corrupt bastards who don't listen to anyone and just want to be elected again.

I'm not a parent so I can't really say much, but I have played GTA and Halo and I can easily see why GTA is not for kids (who wouldn't). The government is trying to take personal responsibility out of everything. Parents need actually do something and quit blaming others. My parents didn't let me do lots of things, and I'm glad.

[faline]

I used to work at a video store, and truthfully - it is the PARENTS who are idiots. "Dang, Y'all don't got no Grand Theft Auto San Andreas up in here? Well son (looks down at 6 year old boy) I guess we're gonna hafta rent something else. How bout Big Mutha Truckers?"

I used to get so MAD. Ugh. We had all kinds of Disney games appropriate for really young kids, but nope. Parents wanted the slasher games so they could play too.

Well..there is no IQ test to breed so...

It really doesn't matter. If the kids want the game, they will get it. Law or no law - there is always eBay or a friend of a friend. Look how many teens are partying on the weekends. Being under 21 didn't stop them from getting beer.. I don't think that being under 18 will stop them from getting a violent video game.

The law is really just stupid.

Just my $.02

~Faline

[Cthulhu Geek]

Ok, I slightly disagree on this one because I really don't want my 11 year old nephew playing a game where he slaps crack hoars and steals cars, and kills cops. And you can be a really good parent and not allow that stuff, but the problem is the next door neighbors kids whos parents are clueless and will by that shit for the kid unless there is a label or something on it. I agree 18 is harsh, and I think 16 would be fine. I am conflicted on the level of penalty that should be put on some one who sells a game likethis to my nephew, jail time is wrong, but a nice fine would be cool with me. I am very left wing on most things, but this stuff I don't know.

Don

[Laura]

I don't really have an opinion on the piece of legislation, as the poli sci student in me needs, like, 19 footnoted sources to form judgment on anything these days. Though government decency-intervention (paricularly under your current administration) is always susupicious.

Anywho - my only contentious point, and just for the sake of argument, is that you are a responsible, informed adult with every right to own an unharmful product which suits your tastes. Who I think this law is trying to dictate to is everyone else in contact with kids who doesn't share that restraint. Or something. We think you guys are slightly bent down there regardless. Pretty much the only thing regulated in Canada is our SOFTWOOD LUMBER DAMMIT. Also maybe B.C. hookers, Molson beer and Newfoundlanders in general.

Was that nsfw? My bad.

Um. /ramble

[magdala]

I don't believe in government censorship--and I do believe, wholeheartedly and enthusiastically, in parental censorship (that's one of the things parents are *for*). When my youngest, now 21, wanted to buy Marilyn Manson's _Mechanical Animals_ CD, at first I said an unequivocal, "no!" Then, cooler heads prevailed, and as a compromise I told her that we could listen to the CD together, and any lyrics I didn't understand, I could ask her to explain to me. Needless to say, she did NOT listen to the CD with me and never did get to buy it. Fast forward a few years--and imagine her outrage when I bought the CD for myself! As a 40something (and unwilling) divorcee, I found the lyrics to "User Friendly," in particular, hilarious--and unquestionably inappropriate for a 13-year-old. I remain adamantly opposed to government censorship and adamantly in favor of parental censorship--we're in charge; we decide. Step up to the plate, people, and be the adult in the relationship with your kids. You give this right over to Big Daddy and there's no end to what the government will take from you!

[Jeremy]

There are two reasons why the Oklahoma politicians don't give a crap about anyone under the age of 18:

1) They can't vote, and most of them don't care enough to do so even if they could, so they'll forget this crap even happened.

2) Hello? Theocracy, then? They have to force their religious zealotry and bigotry and smallmindedness on everyone they know.

That being said, this bill is still a bunch of festering horseshit. Does that mean I can do anything about it? I don't know. Can I?

On one hand, I agree with the bill. I don't think that GTA3 is suitable for anyone under the age of 17 or 18. It's a total glorification of violence, drugs, and prostitution.

On the other hand, do these people have the right to tell their constituents what they can or can't buy? Not really, but that's kind of what they were elected to do: to make laws to "protect" said constituents.

There needs to be a serious shakeup in the way government is run, but I think you and your readers know that. This is just one small step for Orwell's 1984 to hit even closer.

[scrambler]

The first thing you have to consider is that Oklahoma is deeply embedded in the Bible belt. This is on both sides of the isle. You talk about legislating morality, where do you think the concept of laws came from?

All people fear what they don't understand and general they retreat to the first safe harbor which tends to be religion.

[Jessika]

*sigh* Just another reason I don't like living in Oklahoma. Even the Democrats here aren't much better. Like scrambler said, it is a very Christain/morality run state here. In Nov of 04, the anti-gay marriage ammendment passed by like >80%.

And I speak as a new parent when I say I don't want the government or anyone else deciding what is decent or good for my daughter. My husband and I will raise her and parent. That is our job.

[MyOwnMind]

Obviously, we need parental involvement both in the world of gaming activities and schools. It doesn't matter how good the school is, if the parents aren't intertwined and interactive, the child has no chance. I must agree, why legislate morality but completely ignore, condone, allow corporate stealing by overpaid upper management while the company and shareholders are embezzeled, why allow intentional underfunding of promised pension plans knowing they will disappear and have to be bailed out like the savings and loans were, why keep killing 18 year olds because we don't want world opinion to think we cut and ran while the Shiites don't like the Kurds who don't like the Sunnis and all mistreat women and children and kill each other, why allow permanent pensions, percs, lobbyists freely to people (legislators) who profess to doing their job for love of country while they corrupt policy, and the oil companies to make record profits up 75% quarter over quarter over the same oil thats been in the ground and the same equipment pumping it out? I believe there just might be more compelling issues to address than Grand Theft Auto but maybe its just me being a bit skewed in my priorities. The only idiots worse than the ones running policy are the ones who allow it to continue and keep voting them in.

[Ghanda]

Ok well I'm a little upset with the whole idea i cant believe poloticians are still continue to control every aspect of a person's life for the article is wrong Halo and GTA III do not have hardcore pornography who ever wrote the article is an idiot because they themselves did not play the game find what they claim is in the game which is ridiculous Halo contains ABSOLUTLY no pornography of any kind it is just a violent game in ways and also GTA 3 has some sexual scenes but there is a reason on why to access these scenes you had to put in certain cheat codes which werent easily obtainable this government is going too far i agree with jessika it's all up to a parent to decide if their children are allowed to play those sort of games last year when I purchased the video game FABLE I had to go get my older brother because i was only 17 at the time but the video game was labled with a MA rating which state that its for people of ages 17+ but i still was not allowed to buy it .The game turned out to be a descent game their were few obscenities which the characters could do but not anything that people dont do in real life ... I believe religion should have nothing to do with what happens these days in social life i dont understand how they can retreat to religion when the bible says nothing exclusively about video games..why?... because the bible is outdated and the morals that people had then shouldn't apply now and most dont i dont see fathers selling thier daughters to people which the bible allows ,why? because morals change and just because we have some old fashion politicians doesnt mean we should allow them to shape our society because they're too ignorant to see that the world has changed ...so they try to set laws to keep the society from changing ....to try to keep control!!! they are afraid of losing control!!!

[Adam875]

I don't agree on principle with the government trying to do the job of parents (thereby letting parents off the hook for not paying attention to what their kids are playing/watching/doing and discussing it with them), but on the other hand, what's the point of a ratings system if it's not enforced. Those games are rated M or AO for good reason (I love 'em, but I'm 30!) and shouldn't be sold to minors anyway. But if there are no consequences for store owners, why wouldn't they pass up the chance to make a buck?